Kentucky Armory Club

In Canada an AR is classed as a restricted firearm (legal range only). You can own one, but you can't take it out to your buddy's field to shoot cans. Doesn't matter what barrel length, the AR-15 is restricted. I can swap various barrels or complete uppers all day long and it doesn't change the class or legal use. The serialed lower is the regulated part, I can buy whatever barrel I want and put it on.

How does it work in the States? I understand an SBR is a firearm with a barrel under XX" long. How is it regulated? You put a 10.5" barrel on your lower and then what? That lower has to stay with that particular upper/barrel? The lower has to marked as such and it must remain? Is it a big deal to do it? I'm confused about it, just looking for some clarification.

I ask because I have been asked about my xm177 clone and people say "Oh that's an sbr, wish I could have one". Or other comments like that.

In the states you pick your favorite lower. Fill out a ATF form 1 send it off with 2 finger print cards and your picture on it. Or your Trust paperwork and photos and finger print cards on everyone on the trust to the AFT. Plus a check for $200 once you get the form one back it will have a Stamp on it. It look like a postage stamp. You can build the rifle to any length you want. You can change it at time as long as you put it back to wait matches the form or inform that ATF in writing of the change. The only real pain is crossing state line with it. You have to have write permission.

So there is no regulating the sale of barrels that fall under the minimum length for non-sbrs? Its basically a matter of them assuming you'll follow the rules or get caught with a non-documented/approved sbr?

Is there any special procedure for buying a lower, or just go into a shop and say I want that one?

As I said, the lower is the regulated part here. Any other part of an AR is just a piece of metal, no license or paperwork etc. The lower receiver needs to be approved by gov't central then I can take delivery of it.

Same here.

Barrels are just barrels. You can buy any length you like, it’s up to the buyer to know the laws when purchasing.

Lowers are the part you have to fill out paperwork for. If you buy a stripped lower that’s all it is. You do a background check as with any firearm. You can build it to be a rifle, a pistol or an SBR. If you go the SBR route you just can’t do it till your stamp is received...6-9 months after the gov cashes your $200 check.

Many people will build a pistol, submit paper work, then when their stamp comes back slap a stock on the gun and call it a day.


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Funny how a pistol AR is less work than an sbr even though its really the same thing. Funny (not haha funny) to me anyway, pistols are a pain to own in Canada.

Is a serialed lower tracked after initial purchase? I mean if it isn't part of an sbr. You can sell it and then its in the wind? Or is there always a record of who currently owns it?

In case anyone is wondering that reads this, I'm simply curious. Not asking for a "how to be illegal" tutorial, just wondering how the US system works compared to ours.

After the initial FFL purchase of a lower it is the same as any other firearm in the states. They can be sold privately to other individuals with no other paperwork. Once registered with the ATF as an NFA item (SBR) then additional paperwork is required. Never gone through that but I assume they would require another tax stamp for the new owner and all that Jazz.

And yes, the Boom in the AR pistol market highlights exactly why the NFA laws are a fucking joke.


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Difference here being that if I sold an AR, the gov has to approve the sale and then has a record of the new owner since we here have a license number tied to our name. So, if it were to be used in a crime after the transfer, they would then kick in the new owner's door and ask questions. Does this happen down south too, I mean if you sold a gun to someone that you bought at an FFL (so there's a record at least initially) and they then used it for a crime? Does the gov't actually follow up on this paper trail? If the gun was left at the scene or tracked down after the fact, do they come to you asking questions? What happens now? You just say "I sold it to this dude officer, he said he wanted to try 3 gun."

I realize this thread is meandering now, its a grey area to me and its a rabbit hole too.

Mexican Kerry wrote:Difference here being that if I sold an AR, the gov has to approve the sale and then has a record of the new owner since we here have a license number tied to our name. So, if it were to be used in a crime after the transfer, they would then kick in the new owner's door and ask questions. Does this happen down south too, I mean if you sold a gun to someone that you bought at an FFL (so there's a record at least initially) and they then used it for a crime? Does the gov't actually follow up on this paper trail? If the gun was left at the scene or tracked down after the fact, do they come to you asking questions? What happens now? You just say "I sold it to this dude officer, he said he wanted to try 3 gun."

I realize this thread is meandering now, its a grey area to me and its a rabbit hole too.

The federal government doesn’t (or so we are told) keep any information about what firearm belongs to whom. The form filled out by an ffl stays with the ffl as proof of why they don’t possess the firearm and that the background check was done. It doesn’t go to the federal government. Some individual states require a “registration “ of guns and don’t allow guns to be sold to others without the registration completed. In Ky, we can sell firearms through person to person sales without the involvement of an ffl. These are some of the liberties we have that some want changed. They don’t want us to be able to freely sell our own property and they want a firearm registration so they know exactly who has what and how much of it.

Gotcha. They are working now on further restricting semi rifles here, specifically the AR and a few others. They are trying to push through a new prohib bill that blankets semi centerfires, and allows them some empty slots to add specific models down the road if they missed some in the initial sweep.

Federal gun laws are worse for consumers , FFLs is just part of business .

For instance a FFL licensed manufacturer with a tax permit 07/SOT can make as many machine guns as the market for them or as “post samples”

iron369 wrote:

Mexican Kerry wrote:Difference here being that if I sold an AR, the gov has to approve the sale and then has a record of the new owner since we here have a license number tied to our name. So, if it were to be used in a crime after the transfer, they would then kick in the new owner's door and ask questions. Does this happen down south too, I mean if you sold a gun to someone that you bought at an FFL (so there's a record at least initially) and they then used it for a crime? Does the gov't actually follow up on this paper trail? If the gun was left at the scene or tracked down after the fact, do they come to you asking questions? What happens now? You just say "I sold it to this dude officer, he said he wanted to try 3 gun."

I realize this thread is meandering now, its a grey area to me and its a rabbit hole too.

The federal government doesn’t (or so we are told) keep any information about what firearm belongs to whom. The form filled out by an ffl stays with the ffl as proof of why they don’t possess the firearm and that the background check was done. It doesn’t go to the federal government. Some individual states require a “registration “ of guns and don’t allow guns to be sold to others without the registration completed. In Ky, we can sell firearms through person to person sales without the involvement of an ffl. These are some of the liberties we have that some want changed. They don’t want us to be able to freely sell our own property and they want a firearm registration so they know exactly who has what and how much of it.

Unless you buy from certain retailers that volunteer this information! Cabela's, for one, uploads their digital 4473's to the ATF daily.