AR vs AK...civil discussion?

[Tyler]

Can KAC be the first forum to have civil discussion about which rifle you prefer and why? No bashing, but simply what issues you have had with one or the other.

I'll start. I've owned 2 AR's and 1 AK and been issued numerous m4's and m16a2,3,4's . None of them malfunctioned. I prefer AR's because I'm more comfortable with the safety and mag release. I appreciate the simplicity of the AK, much like a Glock, but that hasn't been enough to change the fact that it just doesn't feel comfortable to me.

[Tyler]

I regret making this thread already...

[son of liberty]

To me the slight advantages and disadvantages of either weapons system is minor and almost insignificant compared to the advantages of Mindset , Skills, and Tactics.

[Frailer]

To me the slight advantages and disadvantages of either weapons system is minor and almost insignificant compared to the advantages of Mindset , Skills, and Tactics.

I agree, except I might delete the "almost" part.

As for me, I've shot lots of ARs and several AKs, and I've found both to be quite reliable. Nevertheless, I shoot ARs better, and I can perform the manual of arms in my sleep.

[KYgundude]

On a serious note, I prefer the AK because I own one. I'll be perfectly happy when I finally get an AR and can shoot both. Which will I grab when the SHTF? The one I presently have the most ammo for.

[Ian]

To me the slight advantages and disadvantages of either weapons system is minor and almost insignificant compared to the advantages of Mindset , Skills, and Tactics.

And the amount of care for your gun, I don't care what it is nothing is maintenance free. I love hearing people complain about problems... "I put 2k rounds down range and the

Sent from my HTC Evo on the Sprint network.

[Ian]

To me the slight advantages and disadvantages of either weapons system is minor and almost insignificant compared to the advantages of Mindset , Skills, and Tactics.

And the amount of care for your gun, I don't care what it is nothing is maintenance free. I love hearing people complain about problems... "I put 2k rounds down range and the thing had all kinds of problems... And no I've never oiled it or thought about cleaning it in 6 months."

Sent from my HTC Evo on the Sprint network.

Sent from my HTC Evo on the Sprint network.

[Till]

Never shot an AK Id like to, I might buy one!

[KYgundude]

I'll add something that I dislike about the AR. It is a way more confusing gun. There are so many damn acronyms that the layman ( me ) has no clue what the heck people are even talking about when they discuss ARs. When you want an AK, you buy an AK. Put ammo in it and start shooting. YES I know I can buy an out of the box AR but it does not seem to be the way to go. Getting this information is not as easy as it might sound. You can't just google ARs and easily find a tutorial that explains the million acronyms you all use and how they go together and what all everything is(at least not something I can easily find, with pics, that a non weapons building moron can understand). this is not something necessarily bad about the gun but a fact that interferes with my motivation to try and get one as well as a hindrance that leaves me out in left field scratching my head with MANY posts on this forum. I don't dislike the gun and would consider purchasing a built one from a forum member ( if and when I had the cash ), but a definite reason why I have never started on one.

Yes, Rob will tell me exactly every single part to buy to build an AR that will kick all other ARs asses with a built in microwave oven, and an auto hooker paging rail attachment but I still don't know what the hell he is talking about and I haven't hit the Powerball yet <G>

[Frailer]

I will say the learning curve, can be..... Intimidating. .

Ha.

Try learning it with a drill sergeant yelling at you.

[SpookyPistolero]

I like both, no matter what theater of war I am tactically inserted into via helicopter/submarine/luge.

I like the AK for certain reasons, and I like the AR for certain reasons. It's just that there are a few more reasons to like the AR for me.

I think the reliability of the AK is almost as overblown as the unreliability/fragility of the AR.

The modern AR according to the TDP is a great blaster. I think the AR is easier and faster to run, and easier to be accurate with. It's much easier to set up with modern sights and optics. It can be much more easily tailored to the individual user (LOP, hand guards, bla bla). Parts are common and plentiful. Maintenance by the individual user is quite manageable.

The AK has a reliable design, but as with any machine it is dependent on build quality. A proper AK (Russian/etc) will run like a champ. It has clearances (not 'loose tolerances') that are very amenable to ruggedness. It's simple to operate.

Unfortunately, the AK sort of 'is what it is'. It's not easy to mess about with. Trunions aren't going anywhere; folding/adjustable stocks can be aftermarket abominations. Hand guards don't have much to turn into. Modern optics have to be jerry rigged (though I saw a new side mount with an extremely low axis recently). If you can accept the AK for what it is, and not try to morph it into something else, then it's a good stick.

That's basically my take after a lot of research and use... within myriad battle zones and tactical firefights.... The AK is good, but has 'hard ceiling' limitations. I feel like the AR is a more rational/objectively-better choice for personal defense.

[jackalo626]

Next civil discussion..... crips or bloods? HAHAHAHA

[Whootsinator]

I like both, no matter what theater of war I am tactically inserted into via helicopter/submarine/luge.

I like the AK for certain reasons, and I like the AR for certain reasons. It's just that there are a few more reasons to like the AR for me.

I think the reliability of the AK is almost as overblown as the unreliability/fragility of the AR.

The modern AR according to the TDP is a great blaster. I think the AR is easier and faster to run, and easier to be accurate with. It's much easier to set up with modern sights and optics. It can be much more easily tailored to the individual user (LOP, hand guards, bla bla). Parts are common and plentiful. Maintenance by the individual user is quite manageable.

The AK has a reliable design, but as with any machine it is dependent on build quality. A proper AK (Russian/etc) will run like a champ. It has clearances (not 'loose tolerances') that are very amenable to ruggedness. It's simple to operate.

Unfortunately, the AK sort of 'is what it is'. It's not easy to mess about with. Trunions aren't going anywhere; folding/adjustable stocks can be aftermarket abominations. Hand guards don't have much to turn into. Modern optics have to be jerry rigged (though I saw a new side mount with an extremely low axis recently). If you can accept the AK for what it is, and not try to morph it into something else, then it's a good stick.

That's basically my take after a lot of research and use... within myriad battle zones and tactical firefights.... The AK is good, but has 'hard ceiling' limitations. I feel like the AR is a more rational/objectively-better choice for personal defense.

I like this guy.

[Tyler]

Next civil discussion..... crips or bloods? HAHAHAHA

Crips, I just look better in blue.

[Ar-Rob]

or manual vs automatic transmissions

[Tyler]

or manual vs automatic transmissions

I can't drive a manual...back on topic

[Mudcat]

I will say the learning curve, can be..... Intimidating. .

Ha.

Try learning it with a drill sergeant yelling at you.

I've done this and been the DS doing the yelling lol.

I always like the AR and talked bad and hated the AK owned a few but never really gave them a fair chance. I have had an AR for close to 23 years plus issued and trained on the same platform for 11 years in the Army. Ive taken lots of military classes with an AR based gun. I have a few classes as a civilian running the AR. Last new years day I decided to put the AR away for an entire year and only run my AK. I took Fighting Kalashnikov with Saurez International and Fighting Rifle with Tactical Response a class I took with my AR a year earlier all with the AK and ran it every time I shot a carbine match, just plinking and even Appleseeds. This Jan 1 my year was over and I have a new best friend, my AK. I prefer to run it in anything out to 250 yards or so, perfectly with in fighting Rifle distance. I run it faster, better and more relaxed than I do an AR or ever have done an AR. I like the short Warsaw length stock, steel surplus magazines, 2 point sling, and an mini red dot sight on an Ultimak and a light. Nothing fancy just functional.

I finally got an AR out of the safe last week so I guess I didn't miss it....much.
The AR is more reliable than a lot of AK guys give them credit for and an AK is more accurate than a lot of AR guys give them credit for. Both will do the job just fine, and there really isn't a wrong answer. Just pick one and learn to run it, have fun and enjoy. I agree that Mnidset, Tactics and Skill are so much more important than gear.

[renovatio]

I've done this and been the DS doing the yelling lol.

I always like the AR and talked bad and hated the AK owned a few but never really gave them a fair chance. I have had an AR for close to 23 years plus issued and trained on the same platform for 11 years in the Army. Ive taken lots of military classes with an AR based gun. I have a few classes as a civilian running the AR. Last new years day I decided to put the AR away for an entire year and only run my AK. I took Fighting Kalashnikov with Saurez International and Fighting Rifle with Tactical Response a class I took with my AR a year earlier all with the AK and ran it every time I shot a carbine match, just plinking and even Appleseeds. This Jan 1 my year was over and I have a new best friend, my AK. I prefer to run it in anything out to 250 yards or so, perfectly with in fighting Rifle distance. I run it faster, better and more relaxed than I do an AR or ever have done an AR. I like the short Warsaw length stock, steel surplus magazines, 2 point sling, and an mini red dot sight on an Ultimak and a light. Nothing fancy just functional.

I finally got an AR out of the safe last week so I guess I didn't miss it....much.
The AR is more reliable than a lot of AK guys give them credit for and an AK is more accurate than a lot of AR guys give them credit for. Both will do the job just fine, and there really isn't a wrong answer. Just pick one and learn to run it, have fun and enjoy. I agree that Mnidset, Tactics and Skill are so much more important than gear.

Where/how long were you a DS?

[325MOUTguru]

AR
Crips
Manual with the flappy paddle shifter

[Tyler]

AR
Crips
Manual with the flappy paddle shifter

/thread

[wash]

I own and shoot both. I enjoy the AK more because I like the greater recoil. Also, you never here an About an AK being "finicky" regarding ammo, as you sometimes do an AR.
Just my 2 cents.

[SNL]

First I like amd because its the most fun to shoot.
Second I like ak74 because its the cheapest centerfire rifle to shoot
Third I like ar because they can be made EXTREMELY nice

There, that was pretty civil...haha

[SNL]

HA, above was my 223rd post....

[justang1997]

My .02

The question to me is m4 vs ak74. They are the current issue rifles of 2 super powers. Without turning this into a "which accessory is better" argument keep it simple and say the basic issued model to infantry and issued ammo.
Skills of the user and tactics and mindset all being agreed upon as to be more importaint, let's put that aside too.

Weight m4 wins. 6.9lbs m4, 7.3lbs ak74
Rounds per min m4 wins. 950 m4, 650 ak74
Velocity ak74 wins 2,953fps ak74n 2900fps m4
Range m4 wins. 500-600 meters m4, 350-500 meters ak74
Barrel length m4 wins. 14.5 m4, 16.3 ak74
Recoil has no way to be accurately tested because its based on feelings of individual but the ak brake gives it a plus imo
Selector switch m4 wins. No way to argue that it doesn't.
Ease of magazine insertion is very subjective to the user too but 99.9 will say m4 wins there. No secret handshake to get it seated.

M4>ak74

[BlackRifle]

Ar-15. For the reasons previously stated, and be ause I think its just a better rifle than an AK. And it represents America.