Change in CCDW statutes?

[Kadnine]

Can anyone put me some knowledge about the rumored changes to the KY statutes (regulating where one can carry and where not) that I've been reading on FaceBook? I've searched google news, yahoo news and local tv news and can't find whats up.

Something about carrying in court prohibited only when in session? Apparently the Shooters' Supply owner was arrested.

- Keith

[ChopperDoc]

A concealed firearm SHALL NOT be carried in the following places:

• Police station or sheriff's office.
  Detention facility, prison or jail.
  Courthouse (Court of Justice, courtroom or court proceeding).
  County, municipal, or special district governing body meetings.
  Meeting of governing body of a county, municipality, or special district.
  General Assembly session, including committee meetings.
  Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose.
  Elementary or secondary school facilities (without the consent of school authorities).
  Child-caring facilities, day care centers, or any certified family child care home.
  Areas within an airport where restricted access is controlled by the inspection of persons or property.
  Any place where federal law prohibits the carrying of a firearm.

In addition to the above restrictions, units of state and local governments and postsecondary education facilities (colleges, universities, technical schools and community colleges) have the authority to limit the carrying of concealed weapons on property owned or controlled by them (KRS 237.115). You should check with units of state and local government as well as postsecondary education facilities prior to carrying a concealed weapon on their property.

Also, KRS 527.070 prohibits unlawful possession (whether carried openly or concealed) of a weapon on school property, except for certain specified exceptions. KRS 244.125 prohibits loaded firearms (concealed or otherwise) in places where alcohol is sold by the drink, except for certain specified exceptions.

In addition, Kentucky law does not prohibit the owners of private premises from excluding persons carrying firearms. Failure to vacate private premises when asked to do so could result in a criminal trespass charge.

[Kadnine]

Thanks, Doc. That's exactly what I was taught in last year's CCDW class, and I'm up to speed on all of those. Friends on FB are saying the courthouse carry rules were recently changed from

"Courthouse (Court of Justice, courtroom or court proceeding) [a blanket prohibition]"

to new legal language --

"(c) Any courthouse, solely occupied by the Court of Justice courtroom, or court proceeding; [a partial prohibition, bold text mine]"

-- which is vaguely worded and rumored to be the confusion leading to Ronald Buschmann's arrest. Heard anything about this?

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/kentucky.pdf

Handgunlaw.us has the new language, but the KY State Police Dept's website still has the old language.

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm#restrict

*****

http://www.wdrb.com/story/21805978/owne ... gun-charge

- K

[irishrob]

New Law in Ky Law Allows Openly Carried Guns in City Buildings
People can now openly carry a firearm in any city-owned facility in Kentucky — including libraries, parks, the zoo, city council chambers and city hall — thanks to a revision made to state law last year.

The law, which applies to any legal firearm, also states that in some places, like suburban firehouses run by special districts, people with the appropriate permit may carry concealed weapons.

The revision, which became subject to enforcement this month, clarifies that firearms may only be regulated by the state, voiding all local ordinances and restrictions.

“Local governments can’t regulate firearms,” said Rep. Bob Damron, D-Nicholasville, who sponsored the bill, which was passed in 2012.

State law prohibits firearms in schools, jails and prisons. Colleges and universities are allowed to prohibit guns under state law, and restrictions in court buildings are set by the judicial branch. Private businesses may still prohibit guns, and a separate state statute allows cities to ban people from carrying concealed firearms into their facilities.

But with few state regulations specifically addressing guns on property owned by local governments and special districts, signs prohibiting people from openly carrying firearms have started coming down. Read more here.

You can see who voted for it and download the Bill here. The wording of the entire Bill is below:

AN ACT relating to the regulation of firearms, firearms parts and accessories, ammunition, and ammunition components.

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky:

âSection 1. KRS 65.870 is amended to read as follows:

(1) No existing or future city, county,urban-county government, charter county, consolidated local government, unified local government, special district, local or regional public or quasi-public agency, board, commission, department, public corporation, or any person acting under the authority of any of these organizations may occupy any part of the field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, taxation, transfer, ownership, possession, carrying, storage, or transportation of firearms, ammunition,[ or] components of firearms, components of ammunition, firearms accessories, or combination thereof.

(2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable.

(3) Any person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section shall repeal, rescind, or amend to conform, any ordinance, administrative regulation, executive order, policy, procedure, rule, or other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof within six (6) months after the effective date of this Act.

(4) Pursuant to Section 231 of the Constitution of Kentucky insofar as any person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section is considered an agent of the Commonwealth, it is the intent of the General Assembly to exempt them from any immunity provided in Section 231 of the Constitution of Kentucky to the extent provided in this section. A person or an organization whose membership is adversely affected by any ordinance, administrative regulation, executive order, policy, procedure, rule or any other form of executive or legislative action promulgated or caused to be enforced in violation of this section or the spirit thereof may file suit against any person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section in any court of this state having jurisdiction over any defendant to the suit for declaratory and injunctive relief. A court shall award the prevailing party in any such suit:

(a) Reasonable attorney’s fees and costs in accordance with the laws of this state; and

(b) Expert witness fees and expenses.

(5) If any person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section violates this section or the spirit thereof, the court shall declare the improper ordinance, administrative regulation, executive order, policy, procedure, rule, or other form of executive or legislative action specified in subsection (1) of this section null, void, and unenforceable, and issue a permanent injunction against the person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section prohibiting the enforcement of such ordinance, administrative regulation, executive order, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action specified in subsection (1) of this section.

(6) A violation of this section by a public servant shall be a violation of either KRS 522.020 or 522.030 depending on the circumstances of the violation.

(7) The provisions of this section shall not apply where a statute specifically authorizes or directs an agency or person specified in subsection (1) of this section to regulate a subject specified in subsection (1) of this section.

[jackalo626]

I see it as a contradiction when it says you can't have it in the portion of an establishment that serves alcohol primarily but later it says not in a place that serves alcohol by the drink.

I know you can carry at restaurants that serve beer but you can't sit at the bar so the additional wording of it saying you can't in a place that serves alcohol by the drink is contradictory (to what I am reading). Any clarification?

[ChopperDoc]

yep, guess I was a little confused. Courthouse is illegal and that has not changed. it is one of the specifically listed places prohibited.

The update officially smacks down the idea that a city can regulate lawful carry by citizens in public buildings. The signs have never carried the force of law and concealed still means concealed so I never paid any attention to the signs anyway.

As for carry in a bar (main purpose is to serve alcohol by the drink): that is still illegal. You CAN sit in the bar area in a restaurant and have dinner. There is nothing prohibiting that. I personally try to avoid sitting at the bar because you can ask 10 cops their interpretation of that Statute and you will get 10 different answers. If I am out having dinner or whatnot I don't generally have the time to enter into a discussion about it with a cop and certainly do not want to make a trip downtown to prove I am right.

[jackalo626]

yep, guess I was a little confused. Courthouse is illegal and that has not changed. it is one of the specifically listed places prohibited.

The update officially smacks down the idea that a city can regulate lawful carry by citizens in public buildings. The signs have never carried the force of law and concealed still means concealed so I never paid any attention to the signs anyway.

As for carry in a bar (main purpose is to serve alcohol by the drink): that is still illegal. You CAN sit in the bar area in a restaurant and have dinner. There is nothing prohibiting that. I personally try to avoid sitting at the bar because you can ask 10 cops their interpretation of that Statute and you will get 10 different answers. If I am out having dinner or whatnot I don't generally have the time to enter into a discussion about it with a cop and certainly do not want to make a trip downtown to prove I am right.

That's how I take it as well thanks. I never sit at a bar and always at the dinner tables and cc. Out of sight and out of mind. IF I was to ever have a problem I was under the interpretation of the law that you are as well.

[Kadnine]

I'm new to concealed carry. Trying to stay current on any recent changes. Thanks, all.

USA Today has the story mentioned by irishrob:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... s/1863437/

It's filled with the typical "Um... gunser bad, m'kay?" quotes that conform to stereotype for journalists in general, and that leads me to believe there's a reason why this story didn't cross my radar screen. I suspect a media black-out because the new law wasn't favorable to most journo's preferred world-view.

No offense to any gun-enthusiasts who happen to work in journalism

I just don't wanna go to court if (God forbid) I'm forced to draw and then later justify my action from a standpoint of legal ignorance. Except for the rather steep learning curve on the ins and outs of carry culture (Mom and Dad never carried, so I didn't get this education growing up) my experience has been pretty positive so far. A lot of that is directly due to KAC! Thanks again.

- K

[Joe]

Open carry of an unloaded pistol in a bar is legal as long as the owner has no problem with you having the pistol.