Looking for advice on short barreled AR9
Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:39 am
Posted this on another kentucky forum but it didn't get much traction..so lets try again 
Hey guys i've been building ARs for awhile, and I really like the platform. They're easy to build, accurate, mostly reliable and you can make them in almost any flavor. I've built uppers as short as 10.3" in 556 and 8.5" in 300BO. However even with an SBR, the OAL (overall length) is still fairly long, I mean hell a 16.5" tavor is the same length as my 10.3" AR SBR. I really want something that can easily pack up into something like a small backpack or could easily stow away in the truck.
With the suppressor on our 8.5" SBR the OAL is exactly 30" & 24" sans suppressor. Honestly I'm not sure why, but I expected that this 300 BO upper would be shorter than it is. With the suppressor on it's completely useless as a PDW, and even without the suppressor I still find myself wishing it was a shorter OAL even though it's an effective rifle round. In my opinion, in this situation, i would be better served moving down to a pistol round and gain portability and ultra compactness.
While this is awfully tiny in the world of ARs its big in terms of a PDW. I'm thinking the only way i can shorten the OAL while still using the AR platform is going to be a 9mm in the 3-5" barrel range, with some kind of folding stock system (yes even for the AR) like the law folder system.
http://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_s ... /99312.htm
heres kind of what I'm thinking
if my math is correct the OAL length on a setup like that very short barrel 9mm sbr would be 19.5"-21" with stock extended or roughly 13-15" with the stock folded. My question is, does anyone have experience with 9mm ARs? What types of magazines should I try and use? Glock, uzi, colt smg? Who makes good 9mm ar components? What type of buffer spring and buffer will i need for a 9mm? Will the buffer system have to change if it will see suppressed/unsuppressed use as well? I've got a pretty good idea of what I want to build, now I just need to figure out the logistics and which parts are going to make the best sense. Any input would be appreciated on this long term project. Am I wrong to consider the AR platform? Are they reliable when going to a super short 3" barrel? or are they just a range toy that's better left to the range? Would I be better off just moving to a different platform like a HK MP5 (semi) or other SMG? Just looking for suggestions and options. What do you guys use for truck guns if any at all?
For comparison the new CZ scorpion evo 3 SBR'd is 26.37 in with the stock unfolded, and 16.14 in with the stock folded. So quite a bit bigger even with the stock folded than the 9mm AR.
Sig's Mpx is really expensive, and the mags are hard as hell to find, and at 70$ a pop when you do find them it's a little painful. But wow.. the stock in my opinion is cool as hell. 18.1" with the stock retracted, 22.8" out.
And then theres LWRC's unicorn gun the SMG45
Probably the nicest of the AR pattern sub caliber guns I've seen, but after releasing the concept of it at shot in 2014 and then finally bringing one to shot 2015 it's still no where to be seen. But at 15" folded it's right there in running of ultra compact PDW's.
I've admittedly got very little time on SMG's, so any input would be appreciated.
Here's a 3" barrel + can. This obviously defeats the purpose of what I'm after as the can pictured adds like 11" lol. But i'm just assuming that you can go that short with a 9mm AR and have the gun still function reliably. Maybe he needs that big of a can to have enough back pressure to cycle?
Found this amazing 9mm SBR on ARF, not sure of it's specifics but it looks like it's maybe a 3-4" barrel and tucking a SilencerCo Omega 9k under the rail. While this is an amazing build, for my use I would still add the law folding stock if possible for storage. Probably the best pdw style build that that i've seen so far thats still using the AR platform and familiar controls. Can anyone tell what parts he's using?
Or am I over thinking it? FN already took a crack at this problem awhile ago, its called the P90 (no, not the PS90). At 19.9" in it's SBR form it's an amazing PDW system, but the armor defeating ammo is expensive and hard to find, and the neutered ammo is still expensive, but those 50 round mags are the tits.
Hey guys i've been building ARs for awhile, and I really like the platform. They're easy to build, accurate, mostly reliable and you can make them in almost any flavor. I've built uppers as short as 10.3" in 556 and 8.5" in 300BO. However even with an SBR, the OAL (overall length) is still fairly long, I mean hell a 16.5" tavor is the same length as my 10.3" AR SBR. I really want something that can easily pack up into something like a small backpack or could easily stow away in the truck.
With the suppressor on our 8.5" SBR the OAL is exactly 30" & 24" sans suppressor. Honestly I'm not sure why, but I expected that this 300 BO upper would be shorter than it is. With the suppressor on it's completely useless as a PDW, and even without the suppressor I still find myself wishing it was a shorter OAL even though it's an effective rifle round. In my opinion, in this situation, i would be better served moving down to a pistol round and gain portability and ultra compactness.
While this is awfully tiny in the world of ARs its big in terms of a PDW. I'm thinking the only way i can shorten the OAL while still using the AR platform is going to be a 9mm in the 3-5" barrel range, with some kind of folding stock system (yes even for the AR) like the law folder system.
http://www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_s ... /99312.htm
heres kind of what I'm thinking
if my math is correct the OAL length on a setup like that very short barrel 9mm sbr would be 19.5"-21" with stock extended or roughly 13-15" with the stock folded. My question is, does anyone have experience with 9mm ARs? What types of magazines should I try and use? Glock, uzi, colt smg? Who makes good 9mm ar components? What type of buffer spring and buffer will i need for a 9mm? Will the buffer system have to change if it will see suppressed/unsuppressed use as well? I've got a pretty good idea of what I want to build, now I just need to figure out the logistics and which parts are going to make the best sense. Any input would be appreciated on this long term project. Am I wrong to consider the AR platform? Are they reliable when going to a super short 3" barrel? or are they just a range toy that's better left to the range? Would I be better off just moving to a different platform like a HK MP5 (semi) or other SMG? Just looking for suggestions and options. What do you guys use for truck guns if any at all?
For comparison the new CZ scorpion evo 3 SBR'd is 26.37 in with the stock unfolded, and 16.14 in with the stock folded. So quite a bit bigger even with the stock folded than the 9mm AR.
Sig's Mpx is really expensive, and the mags are hard as hell to find, and at 70$ a pop when you do find them it's a little painful. But wow.. the stock in my opinion is cool as hell. 18.1" with the stock retracted, 22.8" out.
And then theres LWRC's unicorn gun the SMG45
Probably the nicest of the AR pattern sub caliber guns I've seen, but after releasing the concept of it at shot in 2014 and then finally bringing one to shot 2015 it's still no where to be seen. But at 15" folded it's right there in running of ultra compact PDW's.
I've admittedly got very little time on SMG's, so any input would be appreciated.
Here's a 3" barrel + can. This obviously defeats the purpose of what I'm after as the can pictured adds like 11" lol. But i'm just assuming that you can go that short with a 9mm AR and have the gun still function reliably. Maybe he needs that big of a can to have enough back pressure to cycle?
Found this amazing 9mm SBR on ARF, not sure of it's specifics but it looks like it's maybe a 3-4" barrel and tucking a SilencerCo Omega 9k under the rail. While this is an amazing build, for my use I would still add the law folding stock if possible for storage. Probably the best pdw style build that that i've seen so far thats still using the AR platform and familiar controls. Can anyone tell what parts he's using?
Or am I over thinking it? FN already took a crack at this problem awhile ago, its called the P90 (no, not the PS90). At 19.9" in it's SBR form it's an amazing PDW system, but the armor defeating ammo is expensive and hard to find, and the neutered ammo is still expensive, but those 50 round mags are the tits.
but the one on the end, the super shorty with folding stock SBR is about the smallest PDW I've seen floating around the inter webs
