Stand your ground?

Post by **Rem700** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:47 pm

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... -announces

thoughts on the article or the stand your ground law?

Post by **travisccook** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:52 pm

I've read several articles on this... The guy (zimmerman) showed obvious signs of immediate injury, some of which being to the head. Yet they say that this kid yelled out loudly before being shot so he was innocent. In close-quarters fights-already-started I reckon by the time you make the decision to draw, you've already fired - you don't point the gun at them and wait to see what happens next so they can grab the gun.

I'd cry in fear too if the old guy I was beating the tar out of produced a pistol and shot my idiot self.

Chance that the zimmerman fellow punched first and simply lost absolutely, hope the authorities don't fall victim to the media circus and focus on the facts.

Post by **Rem700** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:00 pm

i have also read a few articles and its still very unclear which way i would go in this case. Zimmerman gave chase to this kid for no reason and then a fight ensued where the kid was shot is mostly what i got out of it. Ao in that case the stand your ground law would not aply because he gave chase with no cause, other than this kid looks suspicious. But at the same time foloowing the kid isnt illegal, so if during following him the kid attacked him he was justified to use lethal force, esp if you say Z had wounds to his face/head. But again in my mind based on what i have read and heard this is still clear as mud to me.

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:12 pm

The grand Jury will 9hopefully) access the FACTS and not the hype being drummed up by the celebs, anti0gunners and Racial activists.

They all want us to think that this was just a wholesome teenager doing nothing wrong who was shot because of the color of his skin.

1. Why was he in a gated community where he does not live to begin with? Did he have to climb a fence to get in? Was he really wandering around or just passing through on the sidewalk as the celebrities involved would have you believe?

2. Why the scuffle? There would have been a thousand ways to deescalate without a physical confrontation (from both parties). Who instigated the confrontation? Who started the physical aggression?

3. The Stand Your Ground Law should not even be in question here. That law is valid, despite the attack on it from opponents that see an opportunity to harangue it.

If the kid attacked the guy, I can see that it may be a valid self defense shooting. I know I am in no shape to enter into a physical altercation with a burly teenager right now, and I think I am probably more physically fit than most rent-a-cops! I am not going to take an ass beating and then have my gun taken from me and be shot with it.

The facts will come out soon enough, and I am not sure that the celebrity gang is going to be happy with the ruling, or their may be enough political pressure to throw this rent-a-cop to the wolves as a sacrificial lamb in these tense, racially-divisive times.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ssracer02 · Post by **ssracer** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:15 pm

Too many details of this story are unknown to even attempt to draw any conclusions. We can speculate all day, but every story I have read leaves out something here or there and all have been completely biased against the shooter. That alone makes me suspicious of the "facts" that we have at this point.

Post by **Rem700** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 pm

Well said CD and i completely agree. I will be very interested to see the outcome hopefully based on fact and not the hype.

Post by **Frailer** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:15 pm

Rem700 wrote:i have also read a few articles and its still very unclear which way i would go in this case. Zimmerman gave chase to this kid for no reason and then a fight ensued where the kid was shot is mostly what i got out of it. Ao in that case the stand your ground law would not aply because he gave chase with no cause, other than this kid looks suspicious. But at the same time foloowing the kid isnt illegal, so if during following him the kid attacked him he was justified to use lethal force, esp if you say Z had wounds to his face/head. But again in my mind based on what i have read and heard this is still clear as mud to me.

This.

Post by **son of liberty** » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:07 pm

The race card is often played when you have no other hand to play.

I got no real problem with someone murdering a thief, really the only thing in question for me is just what the guy was doing there.

Post by **Rem700** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:04 am

http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-kil ... -news.html

Update

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:21 am

Not looking good for the neighborhood watch dude.

I still say this has nothing to do with the Stand Your Ground laws and they should not be in question, but anti-gunners will take every opportunity and not let a good crisis go to waste.

Post by **Rem700** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:53 am

ChopperDoc wrote:Not looking good for the neighborhood watch dude.

I still say this has nothing to do with the Stand Your Ground laws and they should not be in question, but anti-gunners will take every opportunity and not let a good crisis go to waste.

Agreed

Post by **kyswede** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:40 pm

ChopperDoc wrote:Not looking good for the neighborhood watch dude.

I still say this has nothing to do with the Stand Your Ground laws and they should not be in question, but anti-gunners will take every opportunity and not let a good crisis go to waste.

My thoughts too.

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:31 am

Normally, when the main stream media OMITS the race of a perpetrator (especially one accused of racial bias / crimes) the perpetrator is white.

That is not the case here.

CNN has the audio break down from the 911 call focusing on the "racial slur".
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-iso ... ry-likely/

Even if he used it, that does not mean he killed the guy because of his skin color, as Rev Al Sharpton suggests. it may be that he did, but it is not a certainty.

Anyway, the guy is Hispanic. I have seen several media stories listing him as "white Hispanic". Why would they do that? They don't list Obama as a White African-American. Native Americans that are "half breeds" are not listed as White Native Americans.

It is sad to see the agenda being played in the media. he may be guilty, but there is no way the NAACP, Rev Al, Hollywood activists or the mainstream media will ever let him get a fair trial.

Post by **BIGC** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:08 am

Watching the news this morning, the police cheif that chose not to charge Zimmerman has taken an unpaid leave due to the outcry from people. They did say that they are not charging Zimmerman at this time as all the evidence points to exactly what he said, that it was self defense.

Post by **jackalo626** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:12 pm

Race card is always the fall back. I wasn't there but even if it was self defense and showed a video of it being self defense the media and al sharpton would still say the guy was wrong because....... He is the white devil! I laugh in people's face that say race is a reason they (fill in the blank)

Post by **WLJ** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:30 pm

ChopperDoc wrote:Normally, when the main stream media OMITS the race of a perpetrator (especially one accused of racial bias / crimes) the perpetrator is white.

That is not the case here.

CNN has the audio break down from the 911 call focusing on the "racial slur".
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-iso ... ry-likely/

Even if he used it, that does not mean he killed the guy because of his skin color, as Rev Al Sharpton suggests. it may be that he did, but it is not a certainty.

Anyway, the guy is Hispanic. I have seen several media stories listing him as "white Hispanic". Why would they do that? They don't list Obama as a White African-American. Native Americans that are "half breeds" are not listed as White Native Americans.

It is sad to see the agenda being played in the media. he may be guilty, but there is no way the NAACP, Rev Al, Hollywood activists or the mainstream media will ever let him get a fair trial.

Just the mere fact that an Racial slur may have (or not) been uttered by a non-black person before killing a black person, is all that matters to the press, nothing else, not even the reason why or why not he was killed matters after that.

Hispanic is not a race, it's an ethnic destination. Doesn't seem to matter to the press anyway, all that matters is that he was not black which causes the press to have a knee jerk reaction to automatic label this a racial killing.

Post by **WLJ** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Now guess who's getting involved

Obama calls Florida shooting death 'tragedy,' says his son would 'look like Trayvon'

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03 ... z1py0u4AZJ

http://www.youtube.com/user/ssracer02 · Post by **ssracer** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:50 pm

The man can't keep his nose out of anything that he thinks might win him votes. The president has NO need to be sticking his nose in such local matters

Post by **Wyldman** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:52 pm

Just further stirring the pot, pandering to his "voter" base.

Post by **Rem700** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:55 pm

Wyldman wrote:Just further stirring the pot, pandering to his "voter" base.

one more case of him giving the illusion that he gives a shit to his would be voters

Post by **jackalo626** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:01 pm

Makes me so angry!

cmmeur01 · Post by **cmmeur01** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:30 pm

Why did Zimmerman's dad lie for him and say his son didn't "confront or follow" him, when he clearly did?

Also wondering why Zimmerman didn't have a blood sample taken as is standard procedure?

As stated above this isn't stand your ground the guy was clearly looking for / incited the trouble in my opinion.

@ChopperDoc, #1 he was visiting his FAMILY in the neighborhood so he clearly had a right to be there, #2 well seeing as one guy was FOLLOWING the other this seems like the instigating action to me, #3 agree anti gun people will seize on this.

Post by **325MOUTguru** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:37 pm

Cannon fodder.

Post by **Dave1965** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 pm

My thoughts are that the kid was trespassing, neighborhood watch dude followed him to make sure he left and to tell him not to do it again, kid didn't like it, something something something happened and guy shoots kid. Not judging, but easy to see what I think happened.

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:36 pm

cmmeur01 wrote:Why did Zimmerman's dad lie for him and say his son didn't "confront or follow" him, when he clearly did?

Also wondering why Zimmerman didn't have a blood sample taken as is standard procedure?

As stated above this isn't stand your ground the guy was clearly looking for / incited the trouble in my opinion.

@ChopperDoc, #1 he was visiting his FAMILY in the neighborhood so he clearly had a right to be there, #2 well seeing as one guy was FOLLOWING the other this seems like the instigating action to me, #3 agree anti gun people will seize on this.

Yep, I have read all that now too. Was not published at the time of my questions.

Kentucky Armory Club