Louisville off-duty officers told to disarm or leave concert

Post by **WLJ** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:14 pm

They would have asked any terrorists to do the same thing, right?

Louisville off-duty officers told to disarm or leave concert
http://www.wave3.com/story/30719792/lou ... ve-concert

Post by **iron369** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:00 pm

Post by **Dave1965** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:29 pm

This shouts, "hey someone, come here and do something!, we keep the cops out!"

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:19 am

so were they open carrying, printing or were the off-duty LMPD doing security wanding people?

Post by **kokopelli** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:07 am

ChopperDoc wrote:so were they open carrying, printing or were the off-duty LMPD doing security wanding people?

that's the question...unless they were sending everyone through metal detectors and they had to ID for carry...

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:14 am

kokopelli wrote:
ChopperDoc wrote:so were they open carrying, printing or were the off-duty LMPD doing security wanding people?
that's the question...unless they were sending everyone through metal detectors and they had to ID for carry...

Yeah, if the venue is using metal detectors then I would like to know before I potentially purchase tickets for anything there.

Post by **Whootsinator** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:17 am

I've been to the same venue multiple times with differing levels of security. Sometimes it's a wand, a check in the box "pat-down", a more thorough and professional pat-down, sometimes you can walk right in.

Post by **Whootsinator** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:24 am

F. Carrying a loaded firearm in a bar; restaurant exception

State law (KRS 244.125) prohibits anyone, including a license holder, from possessing a loaded firearm, whether concealed or in the open, in a room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink. This prohibition does not apply to restaurants open to the general public that seat at least 50 people and receive at least half of their gross annual income from the sale of food.

Most venues have a bar but are not restaurants, so carrying to a concert would be illegal in Kentucky. I assume there's a blanket exception for sworn officers to be able to carry into bars.

Post by **WLJ** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:38 am

Yeah but doesn't LMPD require them to carry a gun at all times?

Witnesses said the officers were asked to disarm. The problem is LMPD's standard operating procedures for off-duty officers states: "While within Jefferson County, an officer must carry an approved pistol of .380 caliber or larger. The reason being, if officers are needed in a situation where a crime is happening, they can help."

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:49 am

Whootsinator wrote:
F. Carrying a loaded firearm in a bar; restaurant exception

State law (KRS 244.125) prohibits anyone, including a license holder, from possessing a loaded firearm, whether concealed or in the open, in a room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink. This prohibition does not apply to restaurants open to the general public that seat at least 50 people and receive at least half of their gross annual income from the sale of food.

Most venues have a bar but are not restaurants, so carrying to a concert would be illegal in Kentucky. I assume there's a blanket exception for sworn officers to be able to carry into bars.

This can be a grey area, I am sure. While beer can be carried into the seating area not all venues sell in the seating area. Many will have vendors which sell beer but also food in the kiosks. The Palace is a smaller venue though, and may be considered a bar for legal definitions.

Not sure I want to be the test of that legal grey area but I do not think it is as cut n dry as you would imagine.

Post by **Whootsinator** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:51 am

I imagine the deciding factor would be who spent the most money on their lawyer.

Post by **kokopelli** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:52 am

WLJ wrote:Yeah but doesn't LMPD require them to carry a gun at all times?
Witnesses said the officers were asked to disarm. The problem is LMPD's standard operating procedures for off-duty officers states: "While within Jefferson County, an officer must carry an approved pistol of .380 caliber or larger. The reason being, if officers are needed in a situation where a crime is happening, they can help."

yes, and it is actually a KRS; (state law) for sworn officers of a 1st class city to be armed 24 hours a day

Post by **PDM** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:01 pm

ChopperDoc wrote:
Whootsinator wrote:
F. Carrying a loaded firearm in a bar; restaurant exception

State law (KRS 244.125) prohibits anyone, including a license holder, from possessing a loaded firearm, whether concealed or in the open, in a room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink. This prohibition does not apply to restaurants open to the general public that seat at least 50 people and receive at least half of their gross annual income from the sale of food.

Most venues have a bar but are not restaurants, so carrying to a concert would be illegal in Kentucky. I assume there's a blanket exception for sworn officers to be able to carry into bars.

This can be a grey area, I am sure. While beer can be carried into the seating area not all venues sell in the seating area. Many will have vendors which sell beer but also food in the kiosks. The Palace is a smaller venue though, and may be considered a bar for legal definitions.

Not sure I want to be the test of that legal grey area but I do not think it is as cut n dry as you would imagine.

The inclusion of a bar in any establishment does not automatically make that place off limits. It becomes off limits when the primary source of income is the sale of alcohol.

Am I mistaken?

Post by **Toddstang** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:08 pm

kokopelli wrote:
WLJ wrote:Yeah but doesn't LMPD require them to carry a gun at all times?
Witnesses said the officers were asked to disarm. The problem is LMPD's standard operating procedures for off-duty officers states: "While within Jefferson County, an officer must carry an approved pistol of .380 caliber or larger. The reason being, if officers are needed in a situation where a crime is happening, they can help."

yes, and it is actually a KRS; (state law) for sworn officers of a 1st class city to be armed 24 hours a day

Yep.

Post by **ChopperDoc** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:09 pm

I think it would really come down to who the liquor license is issued to.

If it issued to a vendor in a large facility like the Yum Center that has their own separate space then you are not necessarily "entering the bar" just by entering the premises.

If The Palace has a license issued to it then it would cover all the property and not just one area of it.

Post by **Mike** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:24 pm

Just because alcohol is sold, doesn't make it illegal to carry there.

The places in question were wanding and when the officers that were there(off duty carrying concealed) told the people they were armed and provided credentials, they were told no weapons and they could either leave them in the car and enter or leave.

The decision was made from the top. Their new policy is NO ARMED PEOPLE regardless of law enforcement.

So the way I read that is that they do not want even on duty officers inside their businesses. Ever. For whatever reason.

I for one would have no problem telling them that I can not go inside to deal with the unruly people because of their own policies. The looks on their faces would be great.

Post by **jackalo626** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:41 pm

Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm

Bravo Mike

Post by **Dave1965** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:04 pm

Was waiting for Mike to chime in.

They are just inviting problems by doing this.

Post by **Rem700** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:14 pm

Marcus wrote:Bravo Mike

This

Post by **Gunsmokin** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:26 pm

How is it that a company, Live Nation in this instance, can, or would want to, prevent a law enforcement officer, off duty or not, from entering any establishment, given the KRS statute referenced by Koko?!?

Post by **rustynuts** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:29 pm

Gunsmokin wrote:How is it that a company, Live Nation in this instance, can, or would want to, prevent a law enforcement officer, off duty or not, from entering any establishment, given the KRS statute referenced by Koko?!?

I was wondering the same.

Post by **Rem700** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Gunsmokin wrote:How is it that a company, Live Nation in this instance, can, or would want to, prevent a law enforcement officer, off duty or not, from entering any establishment, given the KRS statute referenced by Koko?!?

Simple....cant fix stupid

Post by **Rem700** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Oh and guns are scary mmmmkay

Post by **rustynuts** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:06 pm

Idiots are scarier.

Kentucky Armory Club