Optics for a SCAR heavy

[ChopperDoc]

I keep looking. If I am going to drop the kind of coin on an optic that I am looking at, I want it to be the right choice. No 'do overs' becasue it will be difficult to sell the optic (I think) for what I pay for it. Most folks are putting something on their SCAR 17S that they would put on a 308 bolt gun. A variable scope of maybe 8x max or so, maybe on a QD mount, etc, etc.

I think that the weapon is not designed for that and I want something that will be best for a battle rifle, even if I never use it for that. Hell, I'll probably never use my AR for any QCB but I still equip it as if I would.


So, I keep coming back to the ELCAN SpecterDR. It is rugged. Built for 7.62, has the lever selectable 1.5x to 6x (fast, no dialing variable stuff so you be reaching out to touch someone and change to close up fast) and you can choose to have a red dot or the entire crosshair illuminated.

I have looked at reviews of NF, Trijicon, Vortex and EOTech. Nothing there that is really blowing my skirt up. Think I will need to break out the credit card for this one, but it needs to be done. Merry Christmas to me.

SPECS:

Scope / Mount: ELCAN SpecterDR 1.5-6x

Specs:
Magnification 1.5x 6x
Length 184mm (7.25")
Width 76mm (3")
Height 76mm (3")
Weight 700g (1.54lbs)
Illumination Source Battery-powered LED (650nm)
Illumination Settings 10 intensity levels
Reticle 5.56, 7.62 STD or 0.50 cal
Eye Relief 70 mm (2 ¾ ")
Field of View 16° 4°
Objective Lens Diameter 42 mm (1.65")
Exit Pupil 7 mm (0.275")
Zeroing Range ±60 MOA
Movement per Click ½ MOA
Mount Capability MIL-STD-1913
Operating Temp -40 to +65°C (-40 to 140°F)
Storage Temp -40 to +85°C (-40 to 180°F)
Environmental
- Waterproof:
- Shockproof:
66ft for 2 hours min
450 g's
Battery / Life DL 1/3 N / Min 300 hrs @ max brightness
Finish Anodized


Pro's: Extremely large objective and ocular lens Diameter allow lots of light and a bright sight picture
Flip of the lever from 1.5x to full 6x
Choice of illuminated crosshair or dot, each with 10 intensity levels
SpecterDR™ Dual Role Rifle Sight- 2011 NRA Publications Golden Bullseye Award Winner
SpecterDR™ Dual Role Rifle Sight is the "One and Only" and now 2011 NRA Shooting Illustrated Optic of the Year!


Con's: It’s a bit heavy at 1.5#.



DISCLAIMER: NOT MY WEAPON. Pic is borrowed from another forum post where a guy chose this optic for his SCAR 17S

[Whootsinator]

As you know, anything I could say about this would be hearsay and secondhand information.

I do A LOT of reading, and I've read a bit on this topic, but I don't have links or information to cite my sources. You can take it for what it is. I base what I say on what I've heard from people I trust, and I don't trust many people. That said, here's what I think:

The Elcan SpecterDR is NOT thought of very highly by those who have used it and shared their experiences. The zero shifts from 1x - 4x (or 1.5x - 6x, if that's the model you choose), and the zero shift varies from unit to unit. A particular group that someone was a part of overseas said that they found the zero shift was so severe, they had to zero at the far magnification and mount an RDS either on top or to the side. Neither A.R.M.S. as a company nor their products are well respected by many people who actually shoot to stay alive. The mount does not reliably return to zero (it might, it might not), and has been known to break. Besides all of this, that thing is heavy.

[ChopperDoc]

Yeah it is heavy.

Have not ruled out something like this setup from Votex:



and the Trijicon with a red dot on top, but that seems kind of awkward too.




With the SCAR, you have to be mindful of the charging handle as well. You'll get your knuckles on most mounts that don't raise the optic up a bit. that is why I think I would prefer the setup from Vortex over the red dot on top of the ACOG. Going to have to raise it up already on the rail a bit or get used to bloody knuckles and that puts my red dot that much higher.

[ChopperDoc]

Have not read that about the SpecterDR on any of the forums I have been lurking on and I appreciate your input Whoots. I know that you don't have the hands on, but I do respect the research you do on stuff like this.

[Whootsinator]

Some thoughts on the SCAR charging handle.
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I've offered up what I've heard from firsthand Elcan users, but I didn't really recommend anything... You obviously want it set up like a battle rifle, capable of reliably, well, battling with. You're probably sick of hearing me ask this over and over... Oh well, I'm asking. How do you plan to use this rifle? You don't want a long range scope, so you're not running it like a DMR/SPR. You have an AR that you say is your CQB rifle, so I'm guessing you don't want a 1x RDS. Something in the middle range I would call a recce rifle... lightweight, set up with accurate and precise semi-automatic mid-range fire in mind, but capable of being used in CQB applications. Not as cumbersome as an SPR set up (no bipod, heavy stock, or long range optic).

To fill that role, there are plenty of 1-4x scopes, fixed power ACOGs, and even 1-8x scopes (serious money). The ACOGs are usually the most dependable. Quality 1-4x scopes are available from Trijicon, Leupold, S&B, Nightforce, and I believe US Optics. Trijicon's TR-24 is built in Japan on contract, and then finished in-house. SWFA has a very similar product... so similar, that it may be built by the same company in Japan who builds the TR-24's. Quality 1-8x are much more expensive, but are available from S&B and Leupold.

[ChopperDoc]

How will I use it... hopefully no more than any civilian. Maybe hunting and mostly range use. I have a couple of decent Vortex scopes that work just fine for bench shooting.

This is a great "Battle Rifle" (especially with the 16" barrel) if I ever had need of it for such. I would like to have the optic to make it capable of Dual Duty (or Dual Role as the SpecterDR indicates). There is a compromise with that, and it appears that ELCAN had a great idea but has not perfected that idea yet. Hopefully they will make the future generations visually pleasing as well as functional, because let's face it, that thing is butt-ugly. Anyway, I would like to have a decent magnification to make longer shots, which the 308 is capable of, with ease as well as having the ability to quickly transition to targets that emerge close up without having to hold my tongue right and go through a 12 step process to adjust optics from full power magnification to minimum or no magnification. I prefer something that has better eye relief that the ACOG (The TA-11 is nice to shoot, but I did not want a fixed power option for this setup, especially of only 3.5x). That was actually the appeal of the SpecterDR. Flip a lever and go from high to low or low to high and eye relief looks fantastic.

The options I have considered are:

• ACOG with the red dot on top.
  45 degree angle mount like in the pic above with scope and red dot
  SpecterDR (1.5x - 6x)
  EOTech with a magnifier on a flip mount

evaluating the pros and cons of each the 7.62 version of the SpecterDR was winning out, but that was assuming I could get it to function (maintain a zero when switching modes) reliably. When the folks using it on a daily basis are calling that into question and adding an unmagnified red dot and using the SpecterDR in full magnification mode, that really defeats the purpose and gives it way too many cons compared to other options.

With the ACOG setup I have a fixed power with a red dot and with better fixed power I loose eye relief. Not a big deal if using an unmagnified red dot for close quarters, but my limited experience with that setup (on an AR) indicates that it is not optimal - the ergonomics of it suck.

With the EOTech option I am limited to 3x power, not really using the potential of my 308 round (Yeah I know that there are folks who can hit well with irons at 500 yards - but my eyes are not getting any younger). Better than 1x for sure, but would prefer better capability. This option works well with the BUIS if I don't have the EOTech on a riser, but my knuckles prefer the EOTEch on the riser for the SCAR. (or forward mounted like the vid...Saw the T Cook vid before, thanks for linking it though).

So, looks like a good scope and a 45 degree red dot for those "oh hell" situations will be my best bet. The Vortex Razor Red Dot is is not available yet and I don't know what the 'street' price will be so I'll start taking a look more at those options than I did before and see what I can come up with.

[etownguy]

You can get higher than 3x magnification for the eotech setup primary arms sells them up to 6x I think. Problem with all of them is the eye relief it is 1.5".

Also the option of the Burris xtr? It is a 1-4x but you are still limited to only 4x.

I agree while you can make long shots with a low power scope why not be able to crank it out so you can see a fly from 200 yards away!

Easiest solution since you are so tore up about this is to just give me the gun problem solved. G

[ChopperDoc]

You can get higher than 3x magnification for the eotech setup primary arms sells them up to 6x I think. Problem with all of them is the eye relief it is 1.5".

Also the option of the Burris xtr? It is a 1-4x but you are still limited to only 4x.

I agree while you can make long shots with a low power scope why not be able to crank it out so you can see a fly from 200 yards away!

Easiest solution since you are so tore up about this is to just give me the gun problem solved. G

Whew...what a load off my mind!


and no...you can't have my rifle!

I'd say that an eye relief of 1.5 is not bad considering 6x power. Never seen one of those. Will have to check it out. Where the eye relief would be a factor would be if I was trying to use that same eye relief close up with both eyes open. A 'take your time' shot at 6x is not going to be as big an issue.

[Harleyx2]

I have the Primary Arms 1x6 magnifier and it's well worth the $99.00. I have a 45 degree mount the problem is it's short maybe 1 inch might need to add a 3 or 4 inch rail to your optic. But a slight turn of the weapon and your on target with a little practice your good to go, just my .02

[dbh]

I have the EOTech & 3x on my Sig 556. I agree it's probably not what you want on a longer range rifle. It is perfect for the 556. The magnifier flips to the side in 1 second and can be completely removed in around 3 seconds.

[shelbygoat]

Did you end up getting the Elcan?

[ChopperDoc]

Did you end up getting the Elcan?

Nope. Going to get the Vortex Razor HD gen II

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/ra ... iflescopes

[shelbygoat]

I ordered a Leupold VX-R Patrol model back in Jan from a certain site using military pricing and still have yet to see it be charged to my CC and shipped lol. Funny thing is I ordered the Mark 2 IMS with it at the same time and they charged me just for the mount and shipped that. I shot en email to Leupold last month with no response. I can't call their 800 # as it won't accept calls from an international phone.

So its just a waiting game I guess.

[ChopperDoc]

I ordered a Leupold VX-R Patrol model back in Jan from a certain site using military pricing and still have yet to see it be charged to my CC and shipped lol. Funny thing is I ordered the Mark 2 IMS with it at the same time and they charged me just for the mount and shipped that. I shot en email to Leupold last month with no response. I can't call their 800 # as it won't accept calls from an international phone.

So its just a waiting game I guess.

Man that sucks.

Yeah, building up the gun funds again so I can buy the Vortex. Good luck on that VX-R. Hope it ships soon.

[shelbygoat]

well it shipped today, finally received an email back from Leupold two days ago stating they were in fact on backorder.

[son of liberty]

Did you end up getting the Elcan?

Nope. Going to get the Vortex Razor HD gen II

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/ra ... iflescopes

I hate you, I looked at that scope a few weeks ago and man it really is the single best combat optic I have ever seen, FAR beyond most anything else I have personally handled. The Eye box is huge, its as easy to use as the older red dots that had a slightly long tube, that's saying a lot from a magnified optic. The turrets are PERFECT, I would not change a damn thing on the scope, after some use I might change my mind on that but with the limited time I fondled it I starting plotting ways to buy one without my wife noticing. The Specter DR was a huge disappointment, not that it was bad I mean it is a quality optic but its not worth what they demand, it should cost about 600 bucks for what it is IMO.

[ChopperDoc]

Did you end up getting the Elcan?

Nope. Going to get the Vortex Razor HD gen II

http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/ra ... iflescopes

I hate you, I looked at that scope a few weeks ago and man it really is the single best combat optic I have ever seen, FAR beyond most anything else I have personally handled. The Eye box is huge, its as easy to use as the older red dots that had a slightly long tube, that's saying a lot from a magnified optic. The turrets are PERFECT, I would not change a damn thing on the scope, after some use I might change my mind on that but with the limited time I fondled it I starting plotting ways to buy one without my wife noticing. The Specter DR was a huge disappointment, not that it was bad I mean it is a quality optic but its not worth what they demand, it should cost about 600 bucks for what it is IMO.

Might be in my hands next week. I'll bring it when we meet up if it is so you can get a better look at it mounted on the rifle.

I looked and compared it for a long time. I know great optics are not cheap, but if I was going to drop that much coin on one it had to be exactly what I wanted. Got to use one on a rifle to test and decided then that I would buy the next one I saw.

Turned out I paid CONSIDERABLY less than MSRP for this one new.

[shelbygoat]

CD, I know you are getting sick of this, so its time to sell it to me

[ChopperDoc]

CD, I know you are getting sick of this, so its time to sell it to me

lol, heck no!

Taking it out tomorrow to NH.