How many of you had your papers checked?

240witsr · Post by **240witsr** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:19 am

Just curious as to how many of you were approached by a LEO and asked for your tax stamp when shooting your SBR or suppressor?

Post by **Dustin** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:26 am

Never.

I had one ask if I had papers on my SBR. I just said "what papers ?"

Post by **Toddinlou** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:55 am

Never... I don't leave home for the range without a color copy though. I think it's only BATFE that can ask to see them under law under a technicality. The way I see it is it isn't worth it to argue over showing someone papers when the person on the other end can make you have a bad day

Post by **Toddstang** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:46 am

Toddinlou wrote:Never... I don't leave home for the range without a color copy though. I think it's only BATFE that can ask to see them under law under a technicality. The way I see it is it isn't worth it to argue over showing someone papers when the person on the other end can make you have a bad day

From what I have read, local LEO doesn't have the right to ask for stamp.

Post by **Wyldman** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:36 am

Whether they have the right, or not (as said, technically, they don't), they can cause you no end of grief, so I also always keep a color copy (marked "COPY" so some jackass doesn't start popping off about "forgeries") with my NFA items. I have never yet needed them, but you know the jackbooted thugs can show up anytime, demanding your "papers".

http://www.youtube.com/user/ssracer02 · Post by **ssracer** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:55 am

Never. I keep a copy in the butt stock though

Post by **Mike** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:27 pm

I don't know the technicalities of if local LEO can ask for your papers, BUT if it's a law, they can enforce it. Meaning if you have a SBR, and a local cop wants to look into it, it would be a lot easier to just show the stamp than making yourself have a bad day. I don't know why a local LEO COULDN'T investigate it if it was in plain view at a range. After all, it is illegal to have them WITHOUT the proper paperwork. The local officers might not know the proper charges or whatever, but I guarantee you if you refuse all it would take is a phone call to make you have a bad day.

99% of local cops know NOTHING about tax stamps. So, if one does know just enough to ask you about it, they probably know just enough to make you have a bad day.

I'll also look into this to find out more. I DO know that a bunch of Metro officers were handed "cheat sheets" years ago from local ATF agents with a bunch of gun laws on it for easy reference.

Post by **Toddstang** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:35 pm

CHAPTER 12. RECORDKEEPING
Section 12.1 Maintaining proof of registration. The NFA requires that a person possessing a firearm
registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) retain proof of
registration which must be made available to the Attorney General, specifically an ATF agent or
investigator, upon request.184 Proof of registration would be on a Form 1 registering a firearm to its
maker, Form 2 registering a firearm to an importer or manufacturer, or a Form 3, 4, or 5 showing
registration of a firearm to a transferee.

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/d ... 5300-4.pdf

Post by **Toddstang** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:42 pm

From what I have been reading, local LEO can not make an arrest on a NFA item. Would be like trying to arrest an FFL , when it is the BATF that is responsible.
Lots of grey matter on this.

Post by **guncrank1** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:13 pm

Toddstang wrote:
Toddinlou wrote:Never... I don't leave home for the range without a color copy though. I think it's only BATFE that can ask to see them under law under a technicality. The way I see it is it isn't worth it to argue over showing someone papers when the person on the other end can make you have a bad day
From what I have read, local LEO doesn't have the right to ask for stamp.

They will question you, I was questioned at cousin house on Echo Trail
when I was testing a SBR build.
I usually have a copy of form 1 or 5 , but if course not that day.

I guess this Jefferson County cop was a neighbor and heard the shooting.
He comes to see and saw the SBR , asked if it was legal.
I said yes and he asked for papers. I told him I did not have any and he was interfering with a Federal licensed dealer
Which is a feloney . That did. Not settle with him and I told him to piss off.
By then my cousin said that i was a FFL and to leave us alone.

Post by **guncrank1** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:18 pm

Toddstang wrote:From what I have been reading, local LEO can not make an arrest on a NFA item. Would be like trying to arrest an FFL , when it is the BATF that is responsible.
Lots of grey matter on this.

See my post

Post by **Toddinlou** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:22 pm

There's just so much grey area. Take the Sig tac brace or whatever. I'm wondering how many people have been arrested by local LE for an unregistered SBR.

Post by **Toddstang** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:51 pm

Ok, my source wants to stay anonymous but protocol for LEO's on this is that they can only ask for your ID to see if you are able to legally posses a firearm. If everything checks out and they still have doubt about your NFA item, they can forward your info to the Feds for further investigation. They cannot arrest you or take your weapon/NFA Item.

Post by **Mike** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:54 pm

Toddinlou wrote:There's just so much grey area. Take the Sig tac brace or whatever. I'm wondering how many people have been arrested by local LE for an unregistered SBR.

Arrested? I bet zero by local leo. The local LEO would likely call out an ATF agent and then it would get sorted out.

By the wording above, I would consider local LEO's an "investigator", since the local LEO's work with the ATF. I know I sure wouldn't want to be the supreme court case to test it.

1fastmach1 · Post by **1fastmach1** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:02 pm

I friend has his paperwork wadded up into the pistol grip of his SBR. He said he's never been questioned though.

Post by **guncrank1** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:33 pm

Toddstang wrote:Ok, my source wants to stay anonymous but protocol for LEO's on this is that they can only ask for your ID to see if you are able to legally posses a firearm. If everything checks out and they still have doubt about your NFA item, they can forward your info to the Feds for further investigation. They cannot arrest you or take your weapon/NFA Item.

That is correct, that is why I told the cop to piss off( no I did not laterally say that ) but he got the idea.

240witsr · Post by **240witsr** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:01 pm

Thanks guys for the replies. I obviously have to wait for my suppressor papers but I wasnt sure how long I could wait for my Form 1 to "test fire" my sbr ACR since I paid over $800 for a custom 10.5" barrel. Would hate to wait 6-10 months to find out the barrel and gas system is shit even though it is highly unlikely.

1fastmach1 · Post by **1fastmach1** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:10 pm

Find a buddy with an sbr lower to run it on. Doing it wrong isn't worth the risk IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ssracer02 · Post by **ssracer** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:21 pm

Should have gotten the paperwork done first, then bought the barrel. The wait sucks

240witsr · Post by **240witsr** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:23 pm

1fastmach1 wrote:Find a buddy with an sbr lower to run it on. Doing it wrong isn't worth the risk IMO.

Its an ACR and as a member of the ACR forums, I dont think there are any SBR ACR's within a few states of me.

240witsr · Post by **240witsr** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:24 pm

ssracer wrote:Should have gotten the paperwork done first, then bought the barrel. The wait sucks

Unfortunately the barrel wait can be as long as the Form 1. The guy builds them on his spare time out of AR15 Daniel Defense barrels and has his own custom gas system he made himself. Very well known in the ACR and SCAR world.

Post by **mike@meridian** » Thu May 15, 2014 10:51 am

We have been approached only once in the last year, and this at a gun show by a plain clothes BATFE officer. We had several SBR's and a believe a post sample STEN Mk II on the table. He was polite, courteous and a pleasure to talk to but did not at any point ask to see our 07/02 SOT paperwork. I believe most field office level agents, especially in more pro-gun states like KY; are generally decent folks simply doing their job. No complaints so far on my side of the industry.

Post by **justang1997** » Thu May 15, 2014 11:13 am

Mike wrote:I don't know the technicalities of if local LEO can ask for your papers, BUT if it's a law, they can enforce it. Meaning if you have a SBR, and a local cop wants to look into it, it would be a lot easier to just show the stamp than making yourself have a bad day. I don't know why a local LEO COULDN'T investigate it if it was in plain view at a range. After all, it is illegal to have them WITHOUT the proper paperwork. The local officers might not know the proper charges or whatever, but I guarantee you if you refuse all it would take is a phone call to make you have a bad day.

99% of local cops know NOTHING about tax stamps. So, if one does know just enough to ask you about it, they probably know just enough to make you have a bad day.

I'll also look into this to find out more. I DO know that a bunch of Metro officers were handed "cheat sheets" years ago from local ATF agents with a bunch of gun laws on it for easy reference.

I'd like to know what you found out on this. I don't think local LEO can enforce sbr unless it's also against state law, which in KY SBR's are legal.

Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk 2

Kentucky Armory Club

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