The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

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The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Frailer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:29 pm

... you shoulder it:

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... braces.pdf

One question answered and a hundred new ones are now generated.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by WLJ » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:32 pm

Image
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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by jackalo626 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:18 pm

Depends on who and how they are feeling as to what is legal etc. It was too much a liability in the hype of these and exactly the reason I wasn't interested in buying one because I knew it would he repealed or messed with somehow. Shout out to all the guys who paid $200 for one of these braces and now can't use it or has to still apply for the $200 stamp and now has an awful "buttstock".

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by 1fastmach1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:41 pm

It was only a matter of time. I wish I hadn't bought mine. I actually wanted to sell it. :(

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Penguin23b » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:52 pm

I'm guilty of buying one, didn't pay near $200 for it, but it is what it is. I blame all the morons that kept sending letters to the atf literally asking if they were allowed to use it to circumvent nfa laws.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by 1fastmach1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:03 pm

Penguin23b wrote:I'm guilty of buying one, didn't pay near $200 for it, but it is what it is. I blame all the morons that kept sending letters to the atf literally asking if they were allowed to use it to circumvent nfa laws.
This.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by SSGBPowell » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:05 pm

Did I miss something? Just don't shoulder it. Use it like it was intended. Stupid people on You tube shouldering them were just asking for trouble for everyone.
I was only going to build one...

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by jackalo626 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:07 pm

SSGBPowell wrote:Did I miss something? Just don't shoulder it. Use it like it was intended. Stupid people on You tube shouldering them were just asking for trouble for everyone.
I think there are more unicorns around than people who actually put that monstrosity on their arm and shot as described.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Frailer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:17 pm

Lots of folks are going to focus on the dumbass-ness of the brace, but that isn't the point. Here's the relevant part:

"...therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item."

I assume this letter also means one can no longer place the bare buffer tube against one's shoulder, as this is "redesigning" a weapon not originally designed to be fired from the shoulder.

If this is allowed to stand, the ATF can determine tomorrow that the act of grasping a pistol with both hands constitutes the creation of an AOW. And no, I'm not making use of hyperbole here.

Using a *bit* of hyperbole, firing a rifle with one hand now constitutes the creation of handgun from a rifle--another NFA no-no.

I honestly don't care about the fate of the brace, but I sincerely hope SIG files for an injunction to have this opinion reversed. Enough is enough.

I'm especially disturbed by those all over the Interwebs who fault the Bubbas who "flaunted" this loophole--which wasn't a loophole at all, but rather an example of the utter stupidity of the 1934 GCA.

Little history lesson: the only reason SBRs and SBSs are regulated by the NFA is because the *original* intent was to get rid of handguns by making ownership prohibitively expensive. Concealable rifles and shotguns were included to prevent people from making their own handguns. When it was realized the act wouldn't pass if handguns were included they were removed, but the SBRs and SBSs weren't.

Those chiding others for not being good little sheep and lining up to pay their tribute should be ashamed of themselves.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Tyler » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:27 pm

So using an item in a manner outside the manufacturer's intent constitutes 'redesign'.

If we follow that logic:

Jumping on a mattress turns your bed into a trampoline.
Putting a glock to your shoulder creates a rifle.
You can't create a classy beer pong arena out of your dining room table, let alone put that table somewhere other than the dining room.
Putting your dick in a blender creates a sex toy.

At the end of the day, we've got an unconstitutional ruling from an unconstitutional agency about an unconstitutional law.

Thank God we're afforded the privilege of paying those folks to tell us what to do. I feel safer already.
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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Frailer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:41 pm

I don't own an AR pistol, but I may build one this weekend.

Just because.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:41 pm


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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by ken6881 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:43 pm

Well I'm glad I didn't buy one. I never could justify saving80-90 vs tax stamp and have the real deal
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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by jackalo626 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:44 pm

Frailer, I don't fault anyone for pointing out the "loophole" as it shouldn't be a thing to begin with. I also am not basing my comment solely on the brace being stupid though it is unless a person is handicapped in some form and needs it. I am especially the biggest opponent of paying a tax stamp which I have openly referred to as a "permission slip" every time I have spoken about it and to sum up my last thought, they will do what they want when they want and we won't do a thing about it.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by jackalo626 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:44 pm

Tyler sums up my thoughts as well.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:47 pm

Beat your head flat.
Not going to change the fact that as long as National Firearms Act, Gun Control Act of 1968 , the Gun Control Act of 1986 are around and the ATF is funded, then this is what you live with.

They are the enforcement arm of the gun industry.

And enough dumb shits write letters and somebody gets the policy changed.
Same thing about paperweight and needing a 07 to machine them for somebody else.
Last edited by guncrank1 on Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Frailer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:48 pm

ken6881 wrote:Well I'm glad I didn't buy one. I never could justify saving80-90 vs tax stamp and have the real deal
So...this ruling is OK with you, then?

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by ken6881 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:51 pm

Not at all. But I'm not surprised ether with the people flaunting skirting the law and this happens.
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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:51 pm

Just remeber the only logic that applies is BATFE logic
As I have said so before Tyler.

Hey I have delt with this stupid shit for 30 years and it still is fucken bullshit.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by guncrank1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:57 pm

Frailer I hope SIG takes them to court over this.

Although the last suit they have over the muzzle blast device that looks like a monacore stack but is not a suppressor has been suspended.

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Frailer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:28 pm

ken6881 wrote:Not at all. But I'm not surprised ether with the people flaunting skirting the law and this happens.
By "skirting the law," do you mean doing something that the ATF stated (just nine months ago) was absolutely, completely, perfectly legal?

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... letter.jpg

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by ken6881 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:36 pm

I'm not here to argue about the terminology I used. But when you have a government entity that makes the rules with no checks and balances your going to have issues. Just like this one they said yeah no problem until they lost all the 200$ tax stamp sales and those guns being on the "list" they changed it to fit there agenda. If everyone would have done it and not posted a million YouTube videos calling there pistols legal sbr's this would not have happened.

Again I'm not saying that it's right but it's the country we live in and until we as the majority people decide were not going to take it anymore it's going to stay that way.
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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by 1fastmach1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:40 pm

Anybody wanna buy my brace?

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by Niceguy » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:41 pm

1fastmach1 wrote:Anybody wanna buy my brace?
haha

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Re: The Sig Brace is Now a Buttstock, *If*...

Post by WLJ » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:56 pm

Meanwhile
CA Man Charged with Owning an SBR for Pistol Brace Equipped AR-15
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/0 ... ped-ar-15/
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