What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

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What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:01 pm

It looks as if people have decided enough is enough and militia's are starting to show up in Nevada over the Cliven Bundy ranch situation. Your thoughts?


http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10 ... ada-ranch/
AS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.

The Review-Journal also reports that Bundy’s son, Ammon Bundy, was shot with a stun gun by law enforcement officers Wednesday and that the rancher’s sister, Margaret Houston, was pushed to the ground.

“I pulled the tasers out of him,” Cheryl Teerlink told the Review-Journal.

Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency.

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called “an atmosphere of intimidation,” resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.

Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association and remained “extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.”

The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.

BLM and National Park Service officials didn’t immediately respond Wednesday to criticisms of the roundup that started Saturday and prompted the closure of the 1,200-square-mile area through May 12.

It’s seen by some as the latest battle over state and federal land rights in a state with deep roots in those disputes, including the Sagebrush Rebellion of the 1970s and ’80s. Nevada, where various federal agencies manage or control more than 80 percent of the land, is among several Western states where ranchers have challenged federal land ownership.

The current showdown pits Bundy’s claims of ancestral rights to graze his cows on open range against federal claims that the cattle are trespassing on arid and fragile habitat of the endangered desert tortoise. Bundy has said he owns about 500 branded cattle on the range and claims the other 400 targeted for roundup are his, too.

BLM and Park Service officials see threats in Bundy’s promise to “do whatever it takes” to protect his property and in his characterization that the dispute constitutes a “range war.”

U.S. Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Las Vegas, noted that BLM officials were enforcing federal court orders that Bundy remove his animals. The legal battle has been waged for decades.

Kornze, the new BLM chief, is familiar with the area. He’s a natural resource manager who grew up in Elko, Nev., and served previously as a senior adviser to Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Reid aide Kristen Orthman said her boss “hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved.”

Sandoval, a former state attorney general and federal district court judge, weighed in late Tuesday after several days of media coverage about blocked roads and armed federal agents fanning out around Bundy’s ranch while contractors using helicopters and vehicles herd cows into portable pens in rugged and remote areas.

“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” the governor said in a statement.

Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in “First Amendment area” south of the resort city of Mesquite.

The site “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution” and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.

BLM spokeswoman Kirsten Cannon and Park Service spokeswoman Christie Vanover have told reporters during daily conference calls that free-speech areas were established so agents could ensure the safety of contractors, protesters, the rancher and his supporters.

The dispute between Bundy and the federal government dates to 1993, when land managers cited concern for the federally protected tortoise and capped his herd at 150 animals on a 250-square-mile rangeland allotment. Officials later revoked Bundy’s grazing rights completely.

Cannon said Bundy racked up more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees over the years while disregarding several court orders to remove his animals.

Bundy estimates the unpaid fees total about $300,000. He notes that his Mormon family’s 19th century melon farm and ranch operation in surrounding areas predates creation of the BLM in 1946.

Since the cattle roundup began Saturday, there has been one arrest.

Bundy’s son, Dave Bundy, 37, was taken into custody Sunday as he watched the roundup from State Route 170. He was released Monday with bruises on his face and a citation accusing him of refusing to disperse and resisting arrest.

A court date has not been set.

His mother, Carol Bundy, alleged that her son was roughed up by BLM police.

Meanwhile, federal officials say 277 cows have been collected. Cannon said state veterinarian and brand identification officials will determine what becomes of the impounded cattle.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:07 pm

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Toddstang » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 pm

Our federal government needs an enema.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by jmeister » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:11 pm

But he's been getting basically free feed for what 20yrs now by grazing his herd on federal land. Wanna protect your property then move them back onto your property.
Making threats doesn't bode well with the feds

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:18 pm

jmeister wrote:But he's been getting basically free feed for what 20yrs now by grazing his herd on federal land. Wanna protect your property then move them back onto your property.
Making threats doesn't bode well with the feds

If I understand it right the land was originally his families and they have been grazing them there for 150 or so years? But then the BLM blocked it under the guise of protecting an endangered tortoise and told him he would have to pay to continue to graze there?

I dunno, I would like to see some facts behind both sides of the story.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Toddstang » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:20 pm

BIGC wrote:
jmeister wrote:But he's been getting basically free feed for what 20yrs now by grazing his herd on federal land. Wanna protect your property then move them back onto your property.
Making threats doesn't bode well with the feds

If I understand it right the land was originally his families and they have been grazing them there for 150 or so years? But then the BLM blocked it under the guise of protecting an endangered tortoise and told him he would have to pay to continue to graze there?

I dunno, I would like to see some facts behind both sides of the story.
I was listening to this on NPR earlier this week. Sounds like the feds have it out for this guy.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:23 pm

Red River Rumble? BLM Wants to Seize 90,000 Acres of Texas Ranchers’ Land

Posted by Faye Higbee / April 10, 2014
red river

The Red River is the boundary between Texas and Oklahoma…or is it?

Byers, Texas along the Red River — The BLM stole 140 acres of the Tommy Henderson ranch thirty years ago. They took his land and paid him absolutely nothing. He sued and lost. Now the BLM is using that court case as precedent to do it again. The problem is, the land they want to seize is property that ranchers have a deed for and have paid taxes on for over a hundred years.

The BLM claims that about 90,000 acres (116 miles along the Red River) have never belonged to Texas in the first place. They will seize the land and it will seriously change the boundaries between the two states.

Avulsion verses Accretion

Since 1803 when the Louisiana Purchase was completed, there has been a controversy over the boundary between Oklahoma and Texas. The boundary is supposed to be the vegetation line on the south side of the Red River. But the River has moved over time. The problem is the definition of that boundary line- Oklahoma and Texas each use different semantics to define it. And the BLM is finding ways to use the disputed words to give them the ability to seize the land.

According to the BLM, the Red River is always Accretion (gradual accumulation of sediment) to the south, and always Avulsion (rapid formation of a new river channel) to the north. So according to the BLM, the boundary only moves one direction, never in the direction that favors the ranchers. They are looking to re-draw the entire portion of the Red River boundary. That includes 90,000 acres of land along a 116 mile stretch of the river.

“BLM officials believe they have a responsibility to manage land they believe is federal which includes an estimated 90,000 acres along 116 miles of the Red River. If land is found to be public, BLM officials say they have three options: leave the land open, closed, or open with limitations.” January 2014

Public input ignored?

Land that has been in the families of ranchers is to be seized as “public lands” that would be subject to fees or blocked off entirely from rancher’s use. Or in some cases, moving the boundary line over to Oklahoma, where Texas ranchers can lose their rights to the lands that they have owned for more than a century. The BLM had open meetings back in January to “take input” from the public …but they are moving forward with their plan to seize the land anyway. There was likely never any intention of actually listening to the rancher’s stand.

The taking of property from land owners, the stealing of cattle, all of these things are apparently the modus operandi of the Bureau of Land Management. There are no tortoises involved in this incident, just land-grabbing feds who are intent to take away the property of ranchers that have owned it for hundreds of years. Will it come to armed confrontation as is occurring in Nevada? We don’t know.

Open grazing of cattle has always been a common law right in America. It is time for the American people to rise up against the theft of private lands and property by a government that is out of control. Ranchers have contact Texas Representative Mac Thornberry for assistance. We will monitor this situation as it progresses.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Toddstang » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:42 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04 ... latestnews


We own this land,” he said, not the feds. He said he is willing to pay grazing fees but only to Clark County, not BLM.

“Years ago, I used to have 52 neighboring ranchers,” he said. “I’m the last man standing. How come? Because BLM regulated these people off the land and out of business.”

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by ChopperDoc » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:51 pm

Found a statement that is said to be from Bundy's daughter explaining the situation.
The daughter tells the story... By SHIREE BUNDY COX:

I have had people ask me to explain my dad's stance on this BLM fight.

Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell.

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.

These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.

These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.

Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repaires and improvements of the ranches.

My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.

Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers.

They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they're own grazing fees.

When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job.

He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.

So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.

In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.

Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the indangered species card.

You've already heard about the desert tortis.

Well that didn't work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.

Now their desperate.

It's come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.

Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.

Now you may be saying," how sad, but what does this have to do with me?" Well, I'll tell you.

They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.

Next, it's Utah's turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.

Then there's the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn't paid them, those cattle do belong to him.

Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.

Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad's signature on it.

They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.

All with our tax money.

They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.

See how slick they are?

Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks"



Also have noticed that the State Government is not happy about how the Feds are handling this. Is a powder keg for sure.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Dashammer » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:37 am

The real question is, why does the BLM want the land in the first place. I mean got to be a reason other than sh-ts and giggles. Axcess, water, future development, some rich guy, I mean what's the real reason. Why deploy merc's, apcs, armed helios, swat teams and so on and so forth over some scrub cattle eating grass. So if Nevada state governmential officials are so upset then why is their State Police or National Guard not up there defending that guys rights. Just like that issue on the Red River why do they really want that land.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Dave1965 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:32 am

jmeister wrote:But he's been getting basically free feed for what 20yrs now by grazing his herd on federal land. Wanna protect your property then move them back onto your property.
Making threats doesn't bode well with the feds
You really don't think the Govt. gives a crap about the small amount of money that he pays compared to the amount of resources they have expended on this do you? Its ALL about the appearance in that he is not doing what they tell him to do. The money is insignificant as it is but a drop in the bucket to the budget of the BLM.

I wouldn't use the M word Charlie, but my brother is apparently putting together a group to go from Washington state. The feds will back down in the grand appearance to the media and then do sneaky behind the scenes stuff I bet.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by ChopperDoc » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:27 am

Dashammer wrote:The real question is, why does the BLM want the land in the first place. I mean got to be a reason other than sh-ts and giggles. Axcess, water, future development, some rich guy, I mean what's the real reason. Why deploy merc's, apcs, armed helios, swat teams and so on and so forth over some scrub cattle eating grass. So if Nevada state governmential officials are so upset then why is their State Police or National Guard not up there defending that guys rights. Just like that issue on the Red River why do they really want that land.

I have heard that the lad would be good for fracking... could just be rumor though.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by ChopperDoc » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:47 am

"You rarely rise to the occasion, you usually just sink to your lowest level of training."

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by ChopperDoc » Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:51 am

"You rarely rise to the occasion, you usually just sink to your lowest level of training."

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:36 am

This was posted to FB, I have no way to confirm yet:
Bundy SITREP
Site rep on Bundy Ranch. Today an estimated 500 militia members and 10k Patriots are expected to be on site with more coming each day. Yesterday at 1500 a DHS caravan was spotted heading out of Pheonix towards Nevada,2 SUV's and 4 MRAPS.Cant confirm this yet just chatter from different locations spotting the vehicles in route.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by BIGC » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 am

ChopperDoc wrote:Other properties in danger too?

http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/04/11/n ... texas-too/

read up, I posted the article in quote just didnt add the link lol.....
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by gaston_kalash » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 am

This is what I thought of when I first read about it

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Harb » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:02 am

This whole thing is a cluster keg waiting to blow up. And that's what I was thinking about Connecticut just a few months ago. Where will the first shots be fired? Looks like it could come from anywhere these days.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by ChopperDoc » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:25 am

Moo-lan Labe?

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by drifter0069 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:09 pm

http://arizonastatemilitia.com/constitu ... in-nevada/

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Robert Paulson » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:34 pm

drifter0069 wrote:http://arizonastatemilitia.com/constitu ... in-nevada/

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Getting very intresting.
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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Toddstang » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Good to see "WE THE PEOPLE" standing up to the federal tyrants.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by drifter0069 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:37 pm

Yes it is. I know a few state reps from surrounding states heading down.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Toddstang » Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:39 pm

In no way shape or form do I consider myself a bad ass, but if this was closer to home, I would go there and stand shoulder to shoulder with them.

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Re: What are your thoughts on the BLM situation in Nevada?

Post by Rem700 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:05 pm

Good luck to all those willing to stand up to the gov. Hope to god this does not turn into the next Ruby Ridge. However it may be the catalyst for somthing much bigger.

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