US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

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US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:52 pm

Anyone else see this? Sickening, and still in the wake of the Koran burnings. The only way to even come close to making this right would be to just hand this guy over to Afghanistan and let them do whatever they want to him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17330205
A US soldier in Afghanistan has killed at least 16 civilians and wounded five after entering their homes in Kandahar province, senior local officials say.

He left his military base in the early hours of the morning and opened fire in at least two homes; women and children were among the dead.

Nato said it was investigating the "deeply regrettable incident".

Anti-US sentiment is already high in Afghanistan after US soldiers burnt copies of the Koran last month.

US officials have apologised repeatedly for the incident at a Nato base in Kabul, but they failed to quell a series of protests and attacks that killed at least 30 people and six US troops.

Local people have reportedly gathered near the base in Panjwai district to protest about Sunday's killings, and the US embassy is advising against travel to the area.

Lt Gen Adrian Bradshaw, deputy commander of Nato-led forces, said he was unable to "explain the motivation behind such callous acts", adding that "our thoughts and prayers are with those caught in this tragedy".

'Propaganda victory'
The soldier has not been named, but is thought to be a staff sergeant.


BBC's Quentin Sommerville: "This kind of rogue event is almost unknown in Afghanistan"
He is reported to have walked off his base at around 03:00 local time (22:30 GMT Saturday) and headed to nearby villages, moving methodically from house to house.

"Eleven members of my family are dead. They are all dead," Haji Samad, an elder from Najeeban village, told the AFP news agency.

Haji Sayed Jan, from Alkozai village, was quoted by the AFP as saying: "My home was attacked and I lost four family members".

A delegation from the provincial governor's office has arrived in the village to determine exactly what happened, a spokesman said.

The soldier - who had reportedly suffered a breakdown before the attacks - is said to have handed himself over to the US military authorities after carrying out the killings.

Continue reading the main story
Previous tension points

February 2012: Violent protests erupt after US troops inadvertently burn copies of the Koran at Bagram air base in Kabul. At least 30 are killed.
January 2012: US and UN officials describe a video clip of US marines urinating on dead Afghans as "disgusting" and "inhuman"
April 2011: US President Barack Obama describes March 2011 Koran burning by a radical US pastor as "intolerance and bigotry". The incident triggered protests which left at least 24 people dead in Afghanistan
April 2008: Dutch and Danish governments evacuate their embassies in Kabul after protests against cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad which was reprinted by Danish newspapers
The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) said in a statement that US officials in Afghanistan would work with their Afghan counterparts to investigate what happened.

This is the first time Afghan civilians have been targeted by foreign soldiers in this way, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville reports from Kabul.

However, a US soldier was convicted last year on three counts of premeditated murder after leading a rogue "kill team" in Afghanistan.

Before Sunday's killings, relations between international forces and the Afghan people were already at an all-time low following the accidental burning of the Koran by US soldiers last month, our correspondent adds.

A senior Afghan intelligence official called the latest attack a "propaganda victory for the Taliban".

Kandahar is the Taliban's spiritual heartland and is considered strategically important because of its international airport, its agricultural and industrial output and its position as one of the country's main trading hubs.


The province has seen heavy fighting between Nato and Taliban forces over the last five years.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in a speech on Sunday that his government still expects to sign a strategic partnership with the United States in the next couple of months.

In a televised speech, he said discussions would continue on the precise role the US will play in Afghanistan after Nato hands over security responsibility to Kabul at the end of 2014.

On Friday, Kabul and Washington reached a deal to transfer US-run prisons in the country to Afghan control.
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:53 pm

Edit- looks like there was more than one of "our" guys involved.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... 2V20120311
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Tyler » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:49 pm

We don't hand over our own, regardless of the act. The military will judge him, not Sharia Law.
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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by ssracer » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:50 pm

I want to know more information on this

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by CESTILL345 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:04 pm

I am sorry it happened, we are taught better than that but look what they have done to our troops and civilans. We need to just leave that place and come the hell HOME !

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US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by justang1997 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:15 am

Tyler wrote:We don't hand over our own, regardless of the act. The military will judge him, not Sharia Law.
+1
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US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by ssracer » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Just read that the guy suffered a traumatic brain injury and had problems at home before this latest deployment.

Also read this
"the Taliban vowed revenge against sick minded American savages"

Not condoning what this guy did in ANY way....but seriously...you blow up your own people every day and we are the sick minded savages?

Get us the hell outta there

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Rem700 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:03 pm

all ao you have already expressed my sentiments as well. Sorry it happened, they will be judged by us and no one esle. Regardless of the acts of a few we are not the savages in this battle.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by shelbygoat » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:06 pm

ssracer wrote:I want to know more information on this
I have friends that are/have recently been to that region. This is the media, remember that.
Last edited by shelbygoat on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Rem700 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:08 pm

shelbygoat wrote:
ssracer wrote:I want to know more information on this
I have friend that are/have recently been to that region. This is the media, remember that.
When i see the stories trying to make US soldiers look like the badguys i often wonder how much thruth their is to them. I mean the media skews the smallest of details to their liking everyday, so in somthing as mainstream as this i can onl;y imagine how many of the facts have been skewed to meet their liberal agenda.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by ChopperDoc » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:02 pm

Still waiting on some details.
Meanwhile, Afghan civilians and local lawmakers say they have their doubts as to whether a single soldier could have committed the massacre alone.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03 ... z1owFabk1l
The word that goes out to the people will be different than the truth is. Sad state of affairs and I will keep the folks remaining there in my prayers.
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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by wash » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:54 pm

Tyler wrote:We don't hand over our own, regardless of the act. The military will judge him, not Sharia Law.
+1

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by son of liberty » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:17 pm

Guess ill be the truthful asshole and say it

Who cares? I don't believeve in the Innocentnt in war, thats horse crap that our touch feely sissy leaders are worried about. If I had my way not a boot would of hit the ground and we would have glassed many villageses, you don't want to be bombed hand over the scum bag we want, there president or emperoror or king wants to say something about it, he gets a bomb up his ass.
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US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:29 pm

son of liberty wrote:Guess ill be the truthful asshole and say it

Who cares? I don't believeve in the Innocentnt in war, thats horse crap that our touch feely sissy leaders are worried about. If I had my way not a boot would of hit the ground and we would have glassed many villageses, you don't want to be bombed hand over the scum bag we want, there president or emperoror or king wants to say something about it, he gets a bomb up his ass.
I'm very, very glad you're not in charge of anything.

I'd be interested to hear a reason from those of you saying the military should judge him and not sharia law. When terrorists of other nationalities attack us do we turn them back over to their own country? Or course not. But when one of ours murders women and children we'll pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep him in our judicial/penal system for the rest of his life, while counterattacks in the coming weeks will cost the lives of more of our troops. I think for a very limited group of extreme war criminals, we would be better off just handing them over. Tells both the country we're occupying and our own people it's taken seriously, and saves us $$$.
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Ironsights » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:36 pm

im kinda with SOL on this one. Its war, people die and shit gets broke.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:40 pm

renovatio wrote:
son of liberty wrote:Guess ill be the truthful asshole and say it

Who cares? I don't believeve in the Innocentnt in war, thats horse crap that our touch feely sissy leaders are worried about. If I had my way not a boot would of hit the ground and we would have glassed many villageses, you don't want to be bombed hand over the scum bag we want, there president or emperoror or king wants to say something about it, he gets a bomb up his ass.
I'm very, very glad you're not in charge of anything.

I'd be interested to hear a reason from those of you saying the military should judge him and not sharia law. When terrorists of other nationalities attack us do we turn them back over to their own country? Or course not. But when one of ours murders women and children we'll pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep him in our judicial/penal system for the rest of his life, while counterattacks in the coming weeks will cost the lives of more of our troops. I think for a very limited group of extreme war criminals, we would be better off just handing them over. Tells both the country we're occupying and our own people it's taken seriously, and saves us $$$.

The fact that you have to ask tells me you won't understand the reason.

If we were fighting a conventional war and lost, the winning side would have the right to sentence those captured/defeated. This isn't a conventional war, it's a half-hearted nation building police action. Sharia Law exists to judge Muslims in Muslim nations. Those involved are Americans regardless of their religion and will be judged as such.

As for the US holding trials for those we capture...we shouldn't. Terrorist should be killed, either on the spot or after they've been waterboarded and spilled the beans.

Don't take this as me supporting us being there, but if we're gonna do it we need to do it right. Death to our enemies. I would say a slow, painful death, but that would afford them more time in this life.
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US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:43 pm

Ironsights wrote:im kinda with SOL on this one. Its war, people die and shit gets broke.
"people die" is a great explanation of collateral damage. I would almost go so far as to say the mass number of people we nuked in japan were collateral damage. Murdering kids isn't collateral damage.
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Ironsights » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:52 pm

renovatio wrote:
Ironsights wrote:im kinda with SOL on this one. Its war, people die and shit gets broke.
"people die" is a great explanation of collateral damage. I would almost go so far as to say the mass number of people we nuked in japan were collateral damage. Murdering kids isn't collateral damage.
I dont have PC correct view of war, ill admit that. Im no fan of the "moral high ground" when
it comes time to fight either. Now if this guy just shot kids while they played on the merry go round for a laugh then thats murder BUT if they were in the area during an operation/mission well its just unfortunate. Thats harsh I know but again its war and bad things happen. i tihnk we are kinda on the same page here except im a little more "leniant" maybe?
Last edited by Ironsights on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Ironsights » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:55 pm

under NO circumstances do we hand him over no matter what.i cant say for sure but i dont think Sharia law guarantees a fair trial or exemption from cruel and unusual punishment. Can you imagine the spectacle they would make over the execution on TV for the world to see. You seen what happened to guys who were killed in Somalia and many other places.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:05 pm

Tyler wrote:The fact that you have to ask tells me you won't understand the reason.
Cool story. I completely agree with you on how we should treat captured terrorists. 100%. Extract every last drop of information from them, then execute them. You're also making my point. If I were in a position to make decisions that affected out relationship with Afghanistan, letting them execute this guy would go a long way. I'm not saying I care whether we have a good relationship with Afghanistan- I don't. I'm all for bringing everyone back home and leaving the rest of the world alone unless provoked. But since we're there, and they don't have a choice, and one of our guys whom we have convinced their people to trust just murdered a bunch of them senselessly, I think we could do better than telling them we'll handle it and footing his bill for the next 80 years.
Ironsights wrote: I dont have PC correct view of war, ill admit that. Im no fan of the "moral high ground" when it comes time to fight either. Now if this guy just shot kids while they played on the merry go round for a laugh then thats murder BUT if they were in the area during an operation/mission well its just unfortunate. Thats harsh I know but again its war and bad things happen. i tihnk we are kinda on the same page here except im a little more "leniant" maybe?
I think we're on the same page, but I don't think you read the article.
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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Ironsights » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:08 pm

i beleive nothing i read and maybe half of what i see when it comes to the media.

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:10 pm

Ironsights wrote:i beleive nothing i read and maybe half of what i see when it comes to the media.
Don't blame you a bit
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:40 pm

renovatio wrote: But since we're there, and they don't have a choice, and one of our guys whom we have convinced their people to trust just murdered a bunch of them senselessly, I think we could do better than telling them we'll handle it and footing his bill for the next 80 years.
Regardless of his actions he is an American who at one point dedicated his life to this nation. That isn't a license to kill, but it deserves some consideration. I don't really know how else to say it; he is one of our own and we will handle the problem.

As for how it would help us in Afganistan, let me get a hit of whatever your smoking. Those people don't care about reason. No matter what we do, they will play it as either weakness and cowardice or heavy-handedness and Western Imperialism running rampant.

If those living in the shitholes we send our men to followed a logical thought process the sectarian violence and infighting wouldn't have multiplied exponentially AFTER we began the drawdown in Iraq.
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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by renovatio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:04 pm

Tyler wrote:Regardless of his actions he is an American who at one point dedicated his life to this nation. That isn't a license to kill, but it deserves some consideration.
I understand the point you're making, but I'm sure you'd agree that signing a paper isn't the same thing as dedicating your life to our nation. Theory and practice don't always match up.
Tyler wrote:As for how it would help us in Afganistan, let me get a hit of whatever your smoking. Those people don't care about reason. No matter what we do, they will play it as either weakness and cowardice or heavy-handedness and Western Imperialism running rampant.

If those living in the shitholes we send our men to followed a logical thought process the sectarian violence and infighting wouldn't have multiplied exponentially AFTER we began the drawdown in Iraq.
Good points. I should have worded what I said differently- I don't think it would really make a difference, just think it would be the lesser of two evils. Either way I also agree with ironsights that we don't know at this point and may never know what actually happened. Stories like this affect me strongly. I have kids, and thinking about an american needlessly killing 9 kids is sickening.
We have learned better than that, and know it more, for it is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. -C.S. Lewis

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Re: US Soldier kills 16 civilians in Kandahar

Post by Lio » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:10 pm

son of liberty wrote:Guess ill be the truthful asshole and say it

Who cares? I don't believeve in the Innocentnt in war, thats horse crap that our touch feely sissy leaders are worried about. If I had my way not a boot would of hit the ground and we would have glassed many villageses, you don't want to be bombed hand over the scum bag we want, there president or emperoror or king wants to say something about it, he gets a bomb up his ass.
Thank god you are not in the military. Perhaps you can easily say stuff like that because you live in your cushy little life here in a war-free place.

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